Discussion about this post

User's avatar
awbvious's avatar

2/2

Center for Applied Rationality … combating cognitive bias

Now that, if I understand DZM, is some straight up 1984 Ministry of Philanthropy s***. The foxes of cognitive bias are definitely running that hen house. The biggest cognitive bias anyone has is specifically that they can't possibly be bad people, which they will cling to, even when doing things that probably the average rational person would say are clearly bad. But the average person would recognize the transgression and correct course. I mean, feeling one’s self is overall not bad is probably something almost everyone clings to, but most people have humility enough to question their behavior when others say “no, there is no excuse, that's just wrong.” (Most people also don't do the amount of drugs these people do while surrounded by enablers of a**holery. See recent articles on the most expensive Airbnb visit ever. The current occupant left a review that the visitor left a rather musky scent, but the reviewer doesn't smell so great either by many accounts.)

The Rationalist movement does not pursue the elimination of bias for its own sake.

Claims to not pursue for its own sake! Very important. You cannot take their words at face value. Maybe that was sarcasm. Maybe that was meant to be shorthand. But I say that vigilance is needed when they want you to (double)think there is truth when they (double)speak.

Archimedes: “Give me a lever long enough

Ironically, you /can/ actually apply this to leverage in finance. Leverage feels like you are getting a longer stick. You are. But the fees and the liquidation risk means you get length with fragility. The longer you get, the more fragility. Ain't no moving the world with a normal chopstick the length of a galaxy. But there are millions of people willing to lose money trying.

his customers’ decision to withdraw their funds from FTX wasn’t a bank run, but the world’s biggest margin call.

That's a fun sentence, and maybe I'm too sensitive, too insistent on vigilance, but I feel it legitimizes a bit what SBF did. Maybe “world's biggest margin call. That is, if stolen funds can be considered collateral.”

“Instrumental rationality,” Yudkowsky wrote in a particularly influential description of his agenda, “is about steering reality—sending the future where you want it to go. …”

Man, that is just disgusting. That is not rationality. Rationality is supposed to be humbling. It's about listening to reality and then making some soft decisions that may need to be updated as time goes on. And realizing that you might not know the best way.

Of course, out of context, there is nothing that disgusting about it. Instrumental = Doing something, being a means for something to happen. Rationality = Following evidence and reason. Rationality involves doing already, so “instrumental” is added just for effect. Make it more forceful. And that's definitely the idea they are trying to convey. Not just breathing and eating when hungry. That's rational. But doing something extra on top, and that extra supposedly should be reason based.

What that extra is, however, is whatever you want it to be, it would seem. Because you get to decide the reason, it would seem. And this has led to abuse, it would absolutely seem. And to think that wouldn't happen… Is extremely irrational.

came to rely less on evidence than on argumentation.

This is fascinating to consider in relation to the evolutions of most religions. Religion, one imagines, just skipped evidence and went straight to argumentation. Straight to heaven, hell, and apocalypses. Or rather evidence was accepted as flimsy–so and so says the guy levitated, he was probably dead before as best as the village elder could tell, etc.--because there was no rigorous scientific practice and recorded knowledge. EA, being born in modern times, where science has proven its worth per repeatable methods, had to slip in its religion later. And did so using the same terminology as evidence based philosophies–such as Empiricism, which it would seem has not been twisted as easily as Rationalism–which leads to many paradoxes. Paradoxes are the enemy of logic, but the friend of faith. Using religion dressed up as science was perhaps the only way for proselytizers to capture the untapped market of STEM students and convert them into religious zealots, without them even realizing.

I just realized. SBF was acting per a faith that pretends to be science by doing fraud in a Trad Fi that pretends to be crypto.

manufacturing of paperclips

Oh! So that was Bostrom! It all makes sense now. In academia, you can easily get tenure, nay, a whole department if you manage even one idea that is glommed onto hard enough. You don't need a whole book. The one paragraph it takes to explain the paperclip problem is enough. It's a one hit wonder that managed the top of the charts and now he can tour for life playing it over and over.

Cory Doctorow, who I have immense respect for, probably could pull of the same tenure with a department just on the idea of “ensh**tification.” It does help to have a book on it too: https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2025/05/26/Internet-Sucks-Cory-Doctorow/ . He even acknowledges the value of such a neologism in this link. Compared to Bostrom, I think it's far more likely we'll someday learn he actually cosplays as a superhero https://xkcd.com/345/ , rather than anything as gross as dabble in eugenics.

Like Sam Harris, I read a book by Doctorow, but in Doctorow's case he had an easy to find email address and I actually did email him. And he emailed back! In fact I've had two nice conversations via email with him. The book was the crypto-flavored “Red Team Blues,” and he appreciated some of my technical notes, which were:

“One, The DAO event was actually a hard fork, not a rewrite of anything immutable per se. The original ledger is still around as Ethereum Classic. It /is/ immutable, and still has the transactions that hit The DAO. It's just not anything anyone really cares about compared to the new ledger that we call Ethereum, which would have to be hard forked again to do the same thing again.

“Two, no way anyone could do "Rewriting as a Service". It would only work as a one time thing on any chain anyone really cared about. Because people keep copies. Simple as that. One copy wouldn't match the original and that would be that. It doesn't require scouring the code, it's a simple as does this equal that.

“But as a one time thing, though, yeah, it would be pretty impactful. The chain's token might crater, but if its got locked assets from other chains or even tradfi, that's where it becomes disasterous.”

It's a pretty fun book of crypto meets gumshoe, so worth a read. It's really great for explanations of Trad Fi fraud. I think DZM would appreciate it.

awbvious's avatar

1/

he told New Atheist figurehead Sam Harris

I read a book by Sam Harris: Lying. I found it mostly good. Wrote notes while reading it. About as much I have written on chapters for this book by DZM. And in the end, never sent the notes to him. (Vaguely recall having a hard time finding an email address.)

I really liked Sam Harris’ one-sentence philosophy that he adopted from his philosophy teacher (a Stanford philosophy teacher, for all I know). I was going to use it for a comment on this Substack, but I didn't have my copy of the book around. I tried finding that sentence online. It was something like we should all let people of good will live peacefully and try to find their own happiness.

Anyway, I tried finding it online and instead I came across some article Harris wrote about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that was cherry-picked with its “evidence” to make Palestinians look bad. I remember in his book that he didn't like Islam, but man, that was a bit much. I don't even want to link to it. I lost a ton of respect for him. Not specifically because of his views, which I am not going to comment on, but because his rhetoric seemed to be in bad faith (pun intended), using seemingly misleading stats and slippery wording. In his zeal to persuade, it seemed to me he omitted glaringly and weasel-worded to obfuscate.

I actually like weasel words when they are meant to show humility. I use words like “seemingly” to admit that I could be wrong, may have misremembered. As opposed to, say, phrases like “a lot” which are actually arrogant. It says the reader should simply trust whatever the writer wants the reader to believe is important. “X group does this Y thing a lot of the time”--is weaselly because it never claims anything definitive. It really could mean anything. But it sounds significant. He seemed to be about as close as you can get to the thing, without actually doing the thing: lying.

Or at least that was my take away. I could be wrong.

Again, I don't want to comment on the substance of Harris’ argument. I will say that Eschatology has been used by minority factions of many religions to excuse horrendous things. Probably every religion that has Eschatology has had a minority faction that uses it to such ends. These horrendous things often overshadow the peace-loving factions that make the majority of every religion, I believe. And I believe peace-loving factions make the majority of humanity as a whole. And likely, by extension, the majority of EA is peace-loving. And those in EA doing horrendous things are likely the minority and likely using Eschatology as an excuse.

Thus, I think the problem is with Eschatology. Eschatology by its very definition cannot be evidence based, as evidence would be gone with everything else. It can perhaps have positives. It can perhaps give hope. But only for those confident it will be good for them, though that confidence, again, must come without evidence. And even then, that hope will come to those who do both good and bad in the name of Eschatology. More than anything, I feel, Eschatology is an excuse for a minority to do horrendous things.

Things that are specifically, and per EA, seem non-altruistic. (Though motivations behind horrendous things are much more difficult to pin down than whether the things are horrendous.)

It is just interesting that Harris dislikes a certain religion, likely because some adherents are seemingly using Eschatology as an excuse for questionable behavior, then Harris interviews SBF, the interviewer is likely sympathetic, the interviewee is connected to EA, and some EA adherents are seemingly using Eschatology as an excuse for questionable behavior.

—-

Effective Altruism is ideal for those to whom, as Kierkegaard put it, “the lack of possibility is like being dumb.”

I am too dumb, myself, to possibly understand this. Is this “dumb” in the foolish sense or in the incapable of speech sense? I get that abstraction can make it easy to ignore the immediate–and likely accurate–feelings of right and wrong. But I don't think I get what the “lack of possibility” is though. Is this to say that foolish people have no doubts? Dunning-Krugger effect?

Sam Bankman-Fried took the maximum-leverage logic of Earning to Give several steps further - he Gave money he hadn’t Earned.

“You see, sure at first, Robin Hood makes sense. Steal from the rich and give to the poor. But the poor have no experience at managing money, so really you need to give to the rich, the right kind of rich, of course. And, yes, you can steal from the rich, but there are simply so many more poor people out there. And they don't have the protections of the rich. So if you really want to maximize your returns, you'll have to steal from the poor, maybe even more than the rich. Of course, then once it's in the hands of the right kind of rich, you know, someone like me, then it can really go to the poor in a much better way than it was with them originally. Probably that better way of giving it is when I'm dead, as I can make/steal even more effectively as long as I hold onto it. Spending some, of course, to live like a rich person. Because then other rich people will feel comfortable around me, which will make me more effective. It's all maximizing of course.”

I like to imagine this is the kind of mental gymnastics SBF goes through. I also like this as an imagined backstory for Prince John, who particularly hated Robin Hood out of a desire to keep his self assessment as an actual good guy, which by necessity meant labeling his foil as a bad guy.

SBF, thought he was Robin Hood, was Prince John all along.

No posts

Ready for more?