Discussion about this post

User's avatar
awbvious's avatar

2/2

or what Freud would call the death drive.

Oh god. Not Freud again. Required reading: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/freud-was-a-fraud-a-triumph-of-pseudoscience/ I’ve actually conversed with the author, Harriet Hill, on other topics. I trust her review. She used to write for Skeptic magazine (not sure if she does anymore, once Pat Linse passed away, it really went downhill, don’t know how it is now). I know DZM likes to read books, well, perhaps he should read "Freud: The Making of an Illusion" /and/ this review of it. What I like about this review is Harriet Hall writes “Freud’s theories have been widely criticized as unscientific, and treatment of mental disorders has increasingly turned to … effective therapies like cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT).” Per this comment https://davidzmorris.substack.com/p/sam-bankman-fried-the-sickness-unto/comment/111241859 , I believe CBT deserves more love than DZM gives it. I mean, it’s so ironic to me that Freud seems like /exactly/ the type of fraud that DZM is writing a book about, and yet refers to him as a legitimate source. Read the review and tell me if this isn’t almost exactly the stuff DZM says modern fraudsters do. Too much drugs/stimulants “advocacy of cocaine was irrational.” Believes his own lies “Crews says, “He chose to remain deceived even after having been proven wrong.” " Aims for the rich and vulnerable “treated pampered, rich socialites.” Genetic prejudice (like eugenics loving TESCREALists) “women were biologically inferior.” Critics just “didn’t understand it.” Like, how many of DZM’s fraudster boxes does this dude need to tick?!

Tiqqun later describe this as “the shared fantasy of the Universal Automaton, analogous to Hobbes’ fantasy of the State in Leviathan, ‘artificial man.’”

Um, I know who Hobbes’ is, I know Leviathan is often used to support strong state (and usually that morphs into fascism), but what is “artificial man?” [Spoiler: No definition is given.]

Data is meant to eliminate (that is, not measure) the irrelevancies of the human

Cool… How? Because I still don’t know what Cyberneticism is.

economic command and control

Again… What is that?

It dismisses interiority as a myth and along with it the entire psychology of the 19th century, including psychoanalysis.

Welp, again, the “forefather” of psychoanalysis seems like a total fraud. That doesn’t mean anyone who also thinks this is /not/ a fraud. The aforementioned “Will MacAskill and Peter Thiel” could be frauds too.

The rejection of psychoanalysis - specifically, the rejection of the entire idea of subconscious drives or hidden motives

Ah, so here’s the meat. Just as frauds can be in psychoanalysis and "movements" that are dismissive of psychoanalysis, so too can one dismiss Freudian psychoanalysis /and/ still believe in “subconscious drives or hidden motives.” For example, CBT. I suggest that CBT is about bringing the subconscious to the forefront. “Oh wow, I am really putting too much weight on everything being bad.” Perhaps it’s a matter of definitions, and you can call CBT a form of psychoanalysis if you look at the root (analysis of psyche) and not the general understanding of psychoanalysis. Fine. But it’s not Freud. And, yeah, people like Andresseen saying (paraphrasing) “I hate introspection” is not the answer https://davidzmorris.substack.com/p/andreessens-ignorance-agenda .

hypertrophy of security operations and functions - preiction, surveillance, repression, incarceration

Okay, hypertrophy, that means quickly eroding from disuse. Got it. Security operations and functions. Okay, so a lessening of things we do for security. Got it. “preiction” Uh, probably not a typo, whatever that is. “surveillance” Uh… Wait, that’s often a bad thing, but isn’t that “pro” security? “repression, incarceration” … Wait, what? Is this saying it’s against or for security operations and functions?

fetishization of data against knowledge is the root of the self-stupification seen in the bad choices of someone like Sam Bankman-Fried.

Okay, so I know SBF a) thought (as a kid or young adult, let’s be fair) the writings of Shakespeare were pretty worthless and b) thought you can do a good-enough risk analysis of just about anything and should act accordingly. But it seems to me that SBF thought /certain/ knowledge (humanities) was worthless and /certain/ data (market prices) were important. But what of a book like Adam Smith’s “The Wealth of Nations?” Is that not "knowledge" that SBF would think important? Or data like when certain folios were created of Shakespeare’s work–which is important data if you want to understand Shakespeare’s work and how they evolved over time, but not important if you don’t care about the works at all, which apparently SBF didn’t. So certain knowledge would be important and certain data would be worthless. If so, then these words would need qualifiers. SBF, to me, is a perfect example of how you could use the subconscious to explain his behavior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance –but that’s psychology, not necessarily psychoanalysis.

the falsehood of the world made of numbers.

Numbers that represent abstracts based on human analysis often being faulty, sure. Numbers underlying the initial conditions of the universe not being essential, eh, not so sure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-tuned_universe . Again, qualifiers needed.

the utilitarian idea of a rationality of micro-economic choices is only a fiction.

I… guess? This was a sentence emphasized by DZM and I am presuming from the "The Cybernetic Hypothesis." I think what Tiqquun/DZM means is that it is probably impossible to get all the macro knowledge necessary to make utilitarian decisions in the micro that will definitely end up the way the decision makers expect. Which, sure, I can buy. And will probably be true until humanity dies out. Sure. But I'm not even sure this /is/ what it is saying.

That is, a fiction that must constantly be reinforced and re-established. This is the pathway from data metrics to Do Kwon faking his “self-correcting” stablecoin.

Wait… That’s just fraud. I’m confused again.

The mythology of the market’s total balancing powers is in fact buttressed constantly by outside intervention, by active plate-spinning which above all reinforces the fiction of the market’s neutrality, or worst of all its natural inevitability, when in fact it is constantly reinforced by active decisions made from positions of power.

Okay, yeah, that I totally agree with. How is that related to cybernetics? I am so confused. Perhaps this substack post needed a preamble like this one by Paul Krugman https://paulkrugman.substack.com/p/europe-versus-america-a-response "A note for most readers: This is inside economics [the word baseball stricken out] football, a discussion mostly among professionals — and covers issues that even economists seem to be perplexed by. You have been warned." And yet... I at least kind of understood that one.

DZM is an excellent writer. I am sure he can make this material more accessible if he knows how perplexing it is to some readers. I hope this comment helps.

awbvious's avatar

1/2

At some point, I just couldn't follow this substack piece and just stopped trying.

To help DZM, here's what were my stumbling blocks.

transcendence of the cycle of Samsara.

Hmm something about humans needing to die, I bet.

Baudrillard

Uh oh, every time DZM mentions this person, I know I'm going to be confused soon.

universal fungibility

Huh, dunno what that is, I’ll click the link. Oh yeah, this https://davidzmorris.substack.com/p/nothing-is-true-everything-is-exchangeable ... Which I didn’t understand last time I came across it either.

control scheme

Okay, the rest of the sentence has words I understand, but what’s a “control scheme?”

process of cyberneticization.

Uh, dunno what that is, but my guess is that DZM will define it shortly. [Spoiler: He did not.]

economic management

Like… Managing the economy? Or, like, being economical (parsimonious) in management? What does this mean?

dimension

"Dimension" makes me afraid I’ll be entering the hypercube of confusion soon.

production under neoliberalism.

Oo boy, neoliberalism, one of the terms everyone has a different definition for.

much like Do Kwon’s Luna

Okay… I know what Do Kwon’s Luna is… But I still don’t know what “cybernetecization” is.

cybernetic info-harness

What is an info harness? Is it a bridle made of data? Is it a mitt for catching factoids? What?

“free float” of prices

Like… It’s tradable supply? Huh?

If you read philosophy

Yep, I’m going to be lost, DZM just mentioned philosophy. I find it ironic that he skewers Bankman-Fried’s philosophy parents as being completely wrongheaded, but I can’t follow DZM’s philosophy arguments half the time.

the collective Tiqqun

Oh, that link will tell me what that is… Oh… It will not.

[image of the Cybernetic Loop]

I got really confused at decided to checkout the Wikipedia of Cybernetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybernetics by this point. I saw this image there too. /And no explanation what the heck it meant in the beginning of that either./ Sensor? Threshold? Controller? What?

This is the cybernetic hypothesis itself summarized by one of its ideologues.

Oh, the quote above, which I totally didn’t understand, is a summary of the meaning. I’ll read it again… “It’s conceivable that a society taken as a whole, a State, could be regulated in such a way that it is protected form all future accidents: such that in itself only eternity changes it. This is the ideal of a stable society achieved through objectively controllable social mechanisms.” Yeah, still no f’ing clue.

Command and control at the social level

Of what? People? Through what? Media? RF waves? What does this mean???

6 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?